In this episode, we have an honest conversation about how we feel about social media and our current approach to using it as a tool for exploration, creativity and connection with our clients and audience.

Social media (we talk about Instagram in this episode), is an aspect of our business that has always felt challenging. From the time it takes us to create intentional content, stick with an overwhelming strategy and stay on top of all the algorithm changes and trends..social media in 2023 hasn’t gotten any easier.

However, over the years, we have found (and are still finding) our own ways to navigate this complicated relationship when it comes to content creation. We chat about letting go of “the strategy” and discovering our own reasons for engaging and using the platform with intention in our businesses.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Ep.33-Social Media

Jo: In terms of like a heated like topic or hot topic that we would love to chat about appropriate. , we're actually talking about our relationship or the complexities of our relationship when it comes to social media and showing up on social media as a business owner in 2023 moving into 2024. 

And I think this is such a hot topic because it was probably, through some of the Instagram Stories that I saw Donaji posted last week, just in terms of how you've been feeling about social media at the moment and sort of your thoughts on how you're approaching it, which is why I really wanted to open that discussion up today on the podcasts that we can kind of do a little bit of a deep dive into what's next and how we are actually navigating sort of like the challenges of posting and the pressures of posting on social media these days.

Donaji: Yeah, I know that I've been feeling like this for a really long time and I mean probably like two years now. And now I'm starting to see people really talking about it, especially creatives. Because it's getting to the point where people are getting burned out, from the fast paced content. Not only absorbing it, but also the pressure of putting stuff out to feed the algorithm and to reach people and to market their services.

And it's sort of taking a toll, not only on their creativity, but on their mental health. And so I'm really glad that people are talking about this because I've been so, so tired of it. And, you know, I feel like we, I don't know, I don't want to speak for everyone, but I feel like a lot of people can relate to having a love hate relationship with social media because of the amount of work that it takes to, you know, to keep being consistent and showing up for whatever reason. Maybe it's time effort or just confidence or all of these different things. 

And so, so a couple of years ago I was just feeling tired specifically around absorbing the content, specifically business related content, and I felt like I wanted to put stuff out, but I didn't, because I was so tired of seeing it and hearing it, I didn't want to be part of that noise, which I know a lot of people can relate to.

And so what would happen is I would freeze up and not post anything and then I didn't post anything for a really long time. And I would try and like I would post a couple times and then I was just like, no, this doesn't feel good. 

There was a lot of this like stop and go. And this year, I remember saying like this year, I really want to make an effort into figuring out how I can do this differently in a way that feels good to me in a way that I can take away this like feeling that I feel about it.

Like this just uncomfortable feeling and like, how can I make this fun or interesting for me to keep doing it? I started looking, I started asking people and having this conversations with people and I started working with a friend of mine who helped me put together a strategy to just get the thing going like to just post whatever I wanted to post and take away the pressure of thinking about business. And which is weird, right? Cause you would think as a branding person like people talk about marketing all the stuff It's like that's not something that we would normally tell our clients like, you know, we're always like be focused and be specific and be on brand and like talk about your message and this and that. 

But you know, I feel like I'm not a company. I am a human being behind this business. People know me for me and I have to be able to be a human through this entire process, you know? Our our brand journey that comes with struggles and success. And so I really was like, okay, I'm just going to have fun and do what feels right. 

It's very easy for me to talk about, community and other people. It’s so much easier for me to do that than to like talk about business. And it's not that I'm not interested in it, it's just that I feel like there's so much information out there that it just gets exhausting. And it gets exhausting thinking about how to do it in a different way. You know, I'm not somebody who's like trying to entertain you, like I'm just not that person and I feel like you and I are similar in that way. 

But yeah, so then now, I've signed up for a course to just help me stay accountable. I don't really sign up for courses very much, but I felt like this one, because it's such a big struggle for me, I realized, like, I need to be in a place that is inspiring and there's some sort of challenge that I can tackle.

And so the goal now is to not think about it too much and just like post whenever I come up with something in my mind and not wait because the longer you put it away or you, you know, you come back to it later, like the more you think about it and then the more I think about it, the more it becomes like this whole project and I end up like not…

Jo: It gets really complex in our heads.

Donaji: Yeah, yeah, and so I it just I overthink it.

I'm kind of like at the warm up stage where I'm like I'm oiling the gears. The goal is to just keep going and just gain some momentum, like build a habit and just try really hard to not think about imposter syndrome and all of those things. 

What about you? Because I know that you and I have felt very similarly.

And you've done such a great…I was telling you earlier, like you, you do such a great job at like creating these beautiful graphics with like jam packed information. But it's never feels overwhelming to me. Like you do a good job of like being concise and staying focused on that, whatever you're talking about.

Yeah. How…cause you've just started again also.

Jo: Yes, I think my experience or my journey has been similar to yours around, especially around posting and then kind of feeling almost like it wasn't energetically sustainable after a while. And I kind of reflected on this, just in terms of like today's call, I was thinking, well, what stopped me from actually coming back in the past?

And how can I actually change that around so that it doesn't feel as draining and scary and overwhelming as maybe it had in the past. And I think when it comes to like the relationship that I've had with social media, part of it is probably due to the fact that I'm quite energetically sensitive to using social media and technology and when it's so fast paced, it can kind of drain me really quickly.

Donaji: Yeah. Same.

Jo: I feel like there's that part where I almost feel like I use up so much of my creative energy being on social media that I don't really have enough left. There's not enough gas in the tank for the next post or the next project with my clients.

And I don't want to be running on fumes. So that is like the thing that I'm like, okay, well, if I have to let go of anything at this moment in time, when client work gets busy, social media tends to be the first thing I'm dropping because it's also the heart, one of the hardest things for me as well.

It's probably also from a mindset perspective, I feel like there, it takes so much work to show up confidently for me because I really have to psych myself up to be like, oh, I'm going to say something on insta stories and show my face, or I feel like I need to know what I'm going to say and how it's going to come across.

I need to prep the content. So as you were saying before, it becomes a whole project when that happens. 

And then there's the other aspect around like me, just spending way too much time doom scrolling on social media and getting tangled up in the comparison side of things. So I noticed that when I was creating my own posts, one of the things that I, even like the last few posts that I started doing this, and I kind of caught myself going into other designers posts and carousels and just trying to research what was working.

I wanted to do it from a strategic place, so I wanted it to whatever I was posting to be effective. So I noticed that as I was researching, I felt this kind of peng of like comparisonitis coming through. And I was like, oh, I'm never going to be as good as like, they've got so many likes and they've got so many comments.

And that was just in the research phase. I felt like one of the changes there is like kind of switching that off a little bit and almost knowing that I've got all the research done like, that is like something that I've done already. I don't need more research. I don't need to be spending more time creeping on other people's posts to like, get more info because I feel like I’ve already done it.

Donaji: Well, you’ve done it so many times, like beautifully, like the research part is like, I think it's just probably you trying to be better and figure out like, wait, like you know what you're doing, you know, you've done it a million times.

Jo: But at the same time, I feel like I'm, I'm starting again. Like it feels like baby steps in that the new content, because I'm not really sure if it's hitting the right audience yet. Like, I feel like it's strategic and catering to like the product based business owners, but I don't know for sure unless I get comments or feedback that that is actually helpful.

And so I'm kind of using this time, like the re emergence of me on social media has been more of like adopting a beginner's mindset again. And I think that's been refreshing.

Donaji: Remember when we talked about…

Jo: Play. Yes. I know.

Donaji: We need to remind ourselves of these lessons.

Jo: We should listen to previous ones. Yeah.

Donaji: It's like play, you know, experiment, give it time, just put out a bunch of stuff and then see like the patterns, right? Cause otherwise, how are we going to know? Yeah.

Jo: We won't.

Donaji: I feel like we just need to remind ourselves of these things.

Jo: A hundred percent. I think that a lot of the time because we're both, we have an analytic brain, we go into almost too much of that analytic mindset.

Donaji: I agree.

Jo: And we try to work out the most efficient strategy, the best thing possible, which just ends up being like a whole lot of overwhelm. And when I brainstorm something, it's like pages and pages of notes and at the end of the day, I'm like, well, I don't know what I need to actually action from all these notes and ideas that I have. Like, it's not clear at this, at that stage, it just becomes like overwhelmed. 

But I understand that even like through mentoring other people, other business owners, that aspect of not knowing what to say or not knowing the type of content that they need to create is something that really holds them back.

So I think that element of play and creating something that has a bigger purpose than just trying to get likes, comments, or people clicking through to your website, it, there has to be something more in it for me. And I know for a lot of the other business owners that I've mentored, there's that inspiration, the motivation behind it, the purpose behind it has to be really strong.

Otherwise it feels like we're working for Instagram and it's not energetically sustainable.

Donaji: Yeah. Yeah.

Jo: So over time, we're just going to burn out because we're just hanging on some tick of approval from our audience, but that might not come like, especially with the, the way people are consuming content nowadays, it feels less about engaging and creating those communities. 

People are just kind of going through the content so quickly that I feel like the engagement on my content versus like what I was posting, maybe like two years ago, it's so different. It's just like how people are engaging with content. They might save it and they might like it, but they might not say anything because you have really no idea.

So that's where the purpose piece I think needs to really come through and the energetic sustainability piece being really important. 

I wanted to ask you a question in terms of like, when you first started posting on social media, like at the very initial stages of like your business, when you were like starting to post on social media and starting to use Instagram, did things feel different versus what it feels now and like, was there something that you learned from, like, when you first started that might still be applicable now, or do you think everything's kind of changed completely?

Donaji: I mean, I think a lot of things have changed. So at the beginning, my account was about my wedding stationery. That I this is how I started. I was freelancing. Then I started slowly building this like business that turned into a greeting card. Like it went from wedding stationery to greeting cards, to branding.

And back then it felt, I don't know actually because if I think about it from today's perspective, it seems easier, but I don't know if, if I really felt like it was easier back then, you know, I, I remember back then. It was still hard to build a following and like everybody was focusing, that was like the biggest focus, increase your followers and this was like before bots, you know? 

And so I feel like because the content was really just photography there wasn't It was a bit slower and there was no story. It was just like the feed, you know It was just the feed.

Jo: Very visual.

Donaji: Even though I still probably felt fast then, I really enjoyed.

So one thing that hasn't changed for me is the community aspect. I feel like that's something that I have never really given up on or have changed my perspective or view or even approach, really. 

I feel like there's so many people that I, and I'm sure most of us at this point, because social media is such a big thing in our lives.

Uh, we meet so many people there and so it's easy, especially for us to have online businesses to build these relationships through social media.

Jo: That's so true. Yes.

Donaji: Yeah, and thankfully for me, a lot of those people are here like locally and I've gotten to build like real relationships where I'm like meeting them like we've hang out and we're friends and, and so and now you and you and I have a podcast even though you're not here.

So I feel like that aspect of like nurturing the relationships and friendships and this is really fun for me. I have a friend who I met through that stationary business she was doing also wedding stationary at the time and somehow we came across her accounts and and she's gone and exploded and it's just so fun that we both are still like in touch and like cheering each other on.

And I just really love that aspect of social media that you can build those relationships if you really take the time to nurture. And it takes time, right? Like it, takes time and it, you know, there's a lot of trust building and stuff like that. And so I think that aspect has not changed for me, even today, like people that I meet at events or my monthly events, I host or even online events like try to reach out to people and like nurture certain relationships.

Obviously you can't do that with everybody, but I feel like there's some that stick and you never know where that can lead. Like they could just be your life long friend or a really great client or a collaboration or just like a really good friend. 

Yeah. That has not changed for me. But now everything is so fast paced that I feel like when we get into social media I I feel like we're like these hypnotized like zombies, we're just like scrolling through, absorbing every, not even absorbing everything.

And like, I don't even know how much of this information we're actually absorbing, you know, because it's so fast and so much. And so I guess my rebellious spirit, like all this time has been like, I don't wanna do that. How can I do it differently? And like, I haven't been able to figure it out. I've just now started to really.

I think about what kind of content I enjoy putting out. I had this conversation with a friend and she's a storyteller. One of the last questions was, it was about my vision. Like what is my vision for my life and my business and how do I want to live my life? And, you know, I said, I really want a slower paced life.

Like I think I've wanted that for a really, really long time. But then we live in such a fast paced world, it's like sometimes it's really hard to figure out how you're going to get there and I slowly do that with certain decisions that I make or certain things that I do. But I didn't even think about social media.

I didn't even think about how it makes me feel. It's like being in the middle of the city with full blown traffic, like that's what social media feels like to me. And you're you're end up you close the app and I feel drained by it so I don't want to add to that like I don't want to be part of that.

So what can I do because I still want to be in there, but I don't want to do it that way. Maybe it's literally just not creating fast paced content and I know the algorithm might not like that and I know people might not see my content because it's not trendy or whatever, but at this point I don't care. I just really don't care.

Jo: Absolutely. Because you gain so much in doing social media in your own, on your own terms. I think. We've all been like tired by the strategies and the algorithms that we have to adhere by in order to get views or likes or whatever. And when you kind of let that go and you're like, well, what does this actually mean for me?

What am I getting out of this? It can't just be the likes and like the fast paced content. Part of things that that doesn't feel right for your values. So if the slower paced content actually lights you up and you have the feeling of, oh, I'm creating something that I'm personally motivated to do.

That's exciting to share. It feels like it's something that you can continue doing. There's a consistent, like it's. Something that you can consistently do rather than like having to stop, start, stop, start. 

What does the slower content look like for you? Like, what does that actually mean?

Donaji: I think it's one, not having to think of the visual part of it when you absorb like these, I don't know, like 10 second videos that like loop and like it's not even also just the length of the video. It’s the choppiness of the of the cuts and the editing and the editing and the format that gets, I think I wouldn't mind if it was sort of intertwined with something that's a little slower visually, but it's not. Everybody's doing the same thing, so it's just like it's a lot for our system, you know, it's a lot of stimulus. That might be fun to create, and I think it could be fun to create, maybe not all the time, but also being creative with the content.

The whole thing about this is that we're trying to feed the way that Instagram is now in order to reach people. Then we have to do it a certain way, right? For people to find our content. Because if we don't do it the way that the algorithm is like, preferring…

Jo: It’s not going to show anything.

Donaji: Yeah. Prioritize certain content, then it's just, you get lost in, in the noise.

And so what happens is like, we're constantly doing this fast paced content and we're really doing it how it's best serving social media and everybody else. I don't know if this makes sense. And so I'm just thinking of like, okay, well, like in general, maybe it's less in one thing and less thoughts or less value, maybe it's the idea of like having to put value in every single post that you share.

Maybe most people will disagree with me. I just, at this point right now, this is how I feel about it. And this is kind of like where I'm going with it. And I'm just trying to listen to my body and like my, just how I feel and not only of what I want, but also what other things that are out there are making me feel that's making me crave slowness.

And this happens all the time, right? Like every time, like there's a shift in something, we go with it. And then at some point there's like rebellious, let's not do it this way because we're tired of it. And let's go back to this thing like that always happens. Like no matter what.

Jo: It’s always the case. Yeah. I think in society we're always reacting.

Donaji: Yeah, so it's kind of like that same thing. I think a lot of us are at that point where it's like, oh, we're going to do a little u-turn and go back.

Jo: I love the little u-turns because I think it brings things into perspective. It means we're not just going with the trend because it is trendy, but we're kind of reacting and responding to it. Hopefully more consciously nowadays that we have a bit more awareness around, you know, what being swept up by trends feels like.

Because I feel like a lot of this, especially when it comes to social media is it's really driven on a dopamine hit. So the more aware that we are of it, the more conscious we can use social media, but in a way that doesn't feel like we don't have control as well, right. That we're conscious of like how long we use it for the type of accounts that we follow or the type of posts that we actually.

Uh, excited to see rather than posts that can trigger us. And I think like, I think back to sort of when I first started social media, it was like 2013. I started blogging and my first blog was all about like mindful mornings. And I was so passionate about mindful mornings. I still am, but I'm not as like extreme about my morning rituals as I was like 2013. 

And social media was like, really, it felt really new and fresh at the time. And I remember like the visual aspect of being able to share like a photo or something that was inspirational or creating like a really aesthetic vision board of your life using Instagram is actually really aspirational and it was not driven by strategy, content strategy, hashtag strategy, algorithm strategy, all of that. 

There was a real spaciousness to experimenting with the platform in a way that felt exciting to each person, you know? And so I feel like that is some of the, that mindset around like the beginner mindset, the being open to that experimentation or open to possibilities and not being stuck.

In strategies and pillars and algorithms is actually really exciting and even though I say not stuck in strategy, I'm, I do feel like there is still a focus and purpose for using social media because it's consciously how I want to use it in my business. But I think nowadays, my approach when I was thinking about like, well, how do I actually approach it?

Like, and what's the sort of next steps forwards that I want to be making now and into next year. I feel like there's a real realignment with like, what feels energetically like valuable rather than like the consistency aspect. That sort of pressure of you have to propose like, you know, X, Y, Z, like every week, like is a good maybe goal to have. But I don't want to put that pressure on myself.

Because ultimately the purpose around it has to be around for me, making sure that like, if my clients see it, they actually get the value from the posts. Because also like I want to be intentional about what I post as well. So now that like my niche has been further refined, I feel like the content and messaging piece is a lot easier.

There's a lot more spaciousness in creating that and I feel very excited about where that's heading. So I still want that to be a big part of the value that I provide in the kind of content for me, it's like self growth versus getting lacks and it's really around the aspect of growing, I guess, how I think about a particular topic and how I'm able to share like my knowledge and that's really exciting too, because I love product development, packaging development, packaging design. But I've never been able to bring together all my experience and understanding around those topics in a concise way. So it feels like I'm building almost like a mini library of different like little topics.

And it's really fun because I'm like, oh one day this will be something that I could use in another format or it could be something that I provide as like a hand out.

Donaji: You can write a book!

Jo: I could write a book on it, or like I could do as we've been speaking about before, you know, maybe these will become podcast episodes or like I could speak about it or create some other piece from it.

But at this stage, it's really using social media just to test out like ideas to see like what really resonates and what people find most helpful so that I can work on really serving people specifically in that niche. And then I can also practice like writing and messaging and creating content. In a way where I'm not being a perfectionist about it.

So that's the practice like that's the personal practice is being able to hone in that skill around concise, concisely articulating something without over doing it and like tweaking it like a thousand times. 

And then there's another aspect around building momentum cause this was something that I kept stopping because I didn't see results because my focus, I guess, when I did stop social media was around like, oh, am I getting enough momentum in terms of like engagement. 

That is something that I'm really happy to let go of because when I posted, this was like my mindset back, back in 2000, maybe 2019, when I was posting more frequently.

I remember doing some posts that did really well. And I was like, oh, this did so well, like, I'm never going to be able to top this. So I might as well stop now. I'm like, that's it. I'm, I'm out. I'm happy to like exit stage left, right? Or exit stage right. 

But now I was like, my approach is around, okay, taking social media as a way of doing the things that scare me a little bit, because every time I'm a little bit scared, I feel a rush of like, energetic momentum that kind of propels me to the next thing.

And I know that when I'm not actually outside my comfort zone, and I'm very like, happily in the safety of my comfort zone, I don't feel like posting. There's a laziness that sets in because I'm just like happy to chill. And I'm like happy to like do scroll, through a feed. And I feel like the thing that was lacking for a while was I wasn't doing things that were really like a little bit scary.

And for me that's really showing my face and like recording something, even if it's unscripted. And I want to bring that intuition aspect back into it cause that was something that was, I think I took out of social media because it became so strategic. And even though intuition, as you were saying, like, when you talk about your vision, it's such a big part of like how you make decisions in your everyday life. And I'm the same, like, in terms of everything else, like, there's so much alignment.

But when it comes to social media, for some reason, it just like went out the window. Like, I didn't feel like I knew how to bring in that intuitive alignment because there were so many other aspects of it that didn't feel aligned.

And I was really focusing on like, all those things about like, oh, but it's so fast paced and it's burning me out and I'm highly sensitive, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if we're able to do social media our way, how could we bring it into alignment with our values? How could we bring it into alignment with what feels intuitively exciting, a little bit like scary and outside our comfort zone so that we're actually.

Creating a change in our system for growth and so some of the things I'm excited about, like when it comes to social media, is that aspect of building like my voice, because this is something that I've been working on for the last few years, even on the podcast, like doing, and also doing voice classes.

But articulation has been something that I would love to get better at.

Donaji: You're so good at articulating. And you know, just having thoughtful questions and responses and, you know, I always love your metaphors. But you are, you're really good at that, and so I don't know where else you want to go with it, but it's nice to know that you're still working on it.

Jo: I think conciseness is probably like the area of focus. Because I talk to Jared and sometimes, he’s like, you just went on about 30 minutes about this one thing and he's like, I didn't say anything for 30 minutes. And he's like, this is the end of the conversation, like, I just like ran out of steam and that was how the conversation ended. Like my energy like dissipated because I got physically tired from talking.

And so he's like, maybe there's a better way of like just like reducing the time it takes me to express and get to the point. I think that's what I want. I want to be able to get to the point quickly. So that's what I will be working on.

Donaji: That's really funny to me. But that is, that is a really good practice, right? Cause like even in any sort of, in the business context, like situations where, whether you're talking to clients or pitching something or doing a presentation or like, I don't know, you don't want to ramble. You, you lose people.

I need to do the same because I tend to kind of like say the same thing again or say the same thing that somebody else just said like I didn't need to do that. Like that was a good way to end it. I didn't need to add anything.

Jo: But sometimes I think it comes from a place of, like, when you reiterate what people say, it's like, you're agreeing with what they're saying, like you're almost backing them up.

Donaji: But also like solidifying that in your own head.

Jo: In a monologue. External monologue.

Donaji: Like thinking out loud kind of thing.

Jo: Yeah, yeah. So, when it comes to, like, navigating social media, like, moving forward, like, what are some, like, I guess, like, final thoughts? On, sort of, like, maybe what you're looking forward to, like, what's, like, the things that you're excited to try in like, you know, the next, like few months leading into 2024, like what's the approach?

Donaji: I think that I'm excited to be able to move past the pressure of putting content out there that needed to either look or be presented a certain way. I felt, I don't know, I had this pressure of like, if it needed to, to be a certain way, and if it wasn't, then I wasn't. Going to be seen and so I'm over that now or at least I'm getting over that now and I'm excited about just being able to create something that feels mine.

I think in general, feeling joyful about putting stuff out, feeling excited about being creative and feeling excited about creating something that you feel good about. And you're doing it for you. 

Like I'm doing this for me, not for social media. You know, I'm doing this for me in a way that feels good to me in a way that feels sustainable to me and that brings me joy and that I'm proud of and and yes, it's gonna be challenging because it's challenging to consistently show up and consistently share your opinion and your point of view. 

Like that alone is not only tiring, but also a bit scary sometimes because you get in your head about like, you know, what people think. And I've been trying to really look at the bigger picture of like what's really important in just not only in life, like I'm getting a little too out there right now, but like really thinking about the bigger picture, but also really thinking about the bigger picture in like my business, you know, and the things that matter.

And I know that if you think about people love you for who you are in person and you show up in your own way through social media, it's going to be the same if you're true to yourself.

Jo: Yes. Yes.

Donaji: And so I'm just really trying to do that. Yeah. It's hard, it's challenging, but it's also exciting to give myself that freedom of, like, I don't have to follow a path, uh, or a model.

Jo: It’s a good challenge to have, I think.

Donaji: Yeah, and I'm not saying there's no strategy. I'm not saying there's no like, framework or anything like that. It's not about that. I think it's just about how I think about it and how I do it. It's like, it's more about the process than like, the end result.

Jo: That is such a good point. Yes. Yeah. It's what you learn along the way, right? Like in all the things you're building rather than like the post itself, it's like everything else that comes before it, like the thinking, the mindset, how you feel like that is so important.

Donaji: Yeah, because we're all trying to share our expertise. Like that's really the bottom line when it, when it comes to business marketing, we're sharing and providing value. We're all sharing the expertise, how you do that. It's, it's up to you and how you approach that. Whatever strategy is you're after, whether it's like whatever strategy you use to attract clients or is it you're doing it to, you know, build your thought leadership or is it to whatever it is like.

To me right now, I'm not thinking about that because I'm really trying to start from having fun with it again and sort of it being something that I'm excited about versus something that I'm dreading. If I really start to think about those things about marketing and like I need to do it this way and this and that it's just not gonna work.

I'm too, I'm thinking too far ahead. It's almost like building a muscle. So I need to start building this muscle. And it's really weird to think about this because we've been doing this for so long. But I just haven't done it consistently in a way that feels good to me. So it's it's really weird to be on year seven of my business and being in 2023 in social media and not like still be having these issues, but I'm not the only one I know.

Jo: You're not the only one. Yeah. I think that's one of the things that I've noticed the most when it comes to From that, when it comes to mentoring, so everybody I've mentored who has a business find social media challenging, unless they're a social media manager or they're a content creator where that's their business, I feel like they actually have a wonderful passion for that, but for the most.

For most business owners, where our work isn't in social media and we've got clients, so we've got products and we've got, you know, all these other things, all these other offerings outside of social media and social media is just part of the marketing for our business. It feels like it's own business.

And sometimes I feel like that's where we get torn. Like our energy is going so much into that. Whereas sometimes it's like, well, no, it needs to really go into. , there needs to be a balance around, you know, how, how everything ties up, but I love what you were saying, just in terms of like that focus on joy and the process rather than the end result.

And hopefully from our podcast today, I'm hoping that our listeners can maybe if you resonate with what we're saying, let us know, or, you know, like, hopefully it gives you a few ideas on how to approach social media. If it's been a little bit challenging for you over the last few years or this year.

And hopefully it gives you something to look forward to as well in terms of what you would like to try. Thanks.

Donaji: But what about you? I didn't even hear what you're excited about.

Jo: Oh yeah. Okay. So like, I guess just like a mini mini distillation like the thing, I guess my approach. 

So I've got four points. First one is realignment around energy so versus consistency. So it's something that feels sustainable is a must. 

The focus on that growth aspect of like, what am I building as a result of the process? So what am I learning out of this and how am I using it to better test what is going to serve my audience in the most effective way. That's the second one. 

The third one is like building, using social media to build energetic moment through like showing my face or doing something that feels a little bit challenging and scary out of the comfort zone.

And then the fourth one was like working on that personal brand aspect of developing a more concise way of expressing myself. So those would be like my four approaches moving into 2024.

Donaji: This is great. I love this. And I, like you said, I hope people, I hope this was helpful to also relieve some of the pressures that they may have that we also have had, so.

Jo: We'll see you in the next episode.